Don't wanna fly back to shitty California.

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EM There are people you love there.
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ReplyJuly 21 at 10:05pm
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Timothy Henry I didn't say the people were shitty.
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ReplyJuly 21 at 10:06pm
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EM I didn't say people. I said they live in the place you call shitty.
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ReplyJuly 21 at 10:07pm
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Timothy Henry Well, that is true. And the place is still shitty.
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July 21 at 10:07pm
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Timothy Henry Let me clearer, since it seems "shitty" doesn't capture it for ya. California is a grotesquely puffed up piece of hogshit; it's a bloated, overpopulated, rat-race state that is nothing more than a pile of fetid rodents looking in a mirror narcissistically and seeing only Fabio. It's beaches are cold, rocky, tarry, or all three. It has hellish traffic which makes it almost impossible to enjoy any of the state's amenities, assuming one could afford them on top of city tax, state sales tax, state income tax, federal sales tax, and federal income tax. The only legitimate history the state has are monuments devoted to honoring the rape and murder of Indians (oops, I meant to say "God"). The only non-dead green parts of the state are dangerous because marijuana is grown there or the redwoods which exist beside some of the least affordable housing in the state. The legislature in California seems bent on contributing to widening the income gap and it seems we'll all end up Hollywood/Bay Area wealthy types or living off the state welfare types. You can never, repeat, NEVER, truly own your property in California.
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July 21 at 10:20pm
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AC Timothy Henry Fresno is quite affordable with low traffic and good access to Yosemite and Kings Canyon. And it's not too far from the Bay Area or LA for a weekend trip. Every state has its issues. Even Washington state has its divide from Seattle (Bay Area/LA-esque) and Eastern WA; it's eerily similar to CA.
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July 21 at 11:49pm
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Timothy Henry Carol, you're gravely mistaken when you think all my friends can see every post I make. I'm deleting your comment because I don't appreciate the snide sarcasm or the inaccuracy of the statement.
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ReplyYesterday at 12:00am
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Timothy Henry Also for Carol, while it's wonderful for you to live how and where you do, if you knew anything about the income gap and the rising level of poverty in this state you might feel a tad more Christian and a tad less willing to flaunt what only two educated incomes can buy. And if you'd travelled a bit more out of California, you'd realize what a shithole it can truly be and truly is. (Also, sorta surprised that someone in your tax bracket isn't sympathetic to what I said about taxes. But I'm used to Californians twisting the truth whichever way they can to convince themselves they live in paradise.)
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ReplyYesterday at 12:04am
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Timothy Henry For Albert, Fresno is not affordable. For what you pay there you could have a beachside home here in Florida on superior beaches, blue waters, no smog, and very low crime. I agree that every state has it's issues, but I believe California's to be more extreme and more systemic. I don't see anyone living a more self-deluded fantasy than the folks here, and the wealthy in the greater LA area and the Bay Area are most immune to the problems with the state.
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ReplyYesterday at 12:08amEdited
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Timothy Henry I'm not sure what part of "you can never truly own your property in California" Californians don't understand. How is that not a major issue for people? Oh right, the increasing poor can't afford land and the wealthy will never worry about theirs being taken from them.
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ReplyYesterday at 12:21amEdited
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AC Timothy Henry Well, affordable is relative, isn't it? For the price of a home in Fresno, you could by an enormous house and plot of land in Idaho, but who wants to live in Idaho? Fresno is roughly on-par with much of the Midwest insofar as cost-of-living (maybe just a bit higher cuz of taxes). Fresno is quite cheap compared to the Bay Area/LA.

I agree that those in the Bay Area and LA are most immune to the state's woes. I know this well having lived in Fresno for 3 years. There is a quite a distinct disconnect. But honestly, I don't think this is too dissimilar to other places I've lived in the Midwest prior, or in WA now. And from what I've heard, there is a similar disconnect between Pittsburgh/Philadelphia and the rest of Pennsylvania. At least CA has protections such that what happened to the water crisis in Flint or the bankruptcy in Detroit are less likely to happen.
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Yesterday at 12:25am
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Timothy Henry Who wants to live in Idaho over Fresno, really? Who WOULDN'T take Idaho over Fresno? It'd have to be one of the smallest, driest out-there cities before I'd go with Fresno. The crime in central valley cities alone would make that decision for me. Since you're not from the state, I think you might have a more neutral, even though I might also say I think also inaccurate view, of the demographics of the state. Fresno is one of the better CV cities, but if you grew up in the state, you'd know it is far from a first choice of where to live (I'd put Riverside and San Bernardino in that category as well).
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I see what you say about protections, and I won't necessarily poo-poo the actual protections. I will add, however, that those protections aren't free, and the budget is balanced somehow. You might notice how little of your state income tax you get returned to you, even after multiple claims and deductions. Socialism isn't cheap in this state. (Although employing teachers is, somehow.)
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ReplyYesterday at 12:34am
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AC I, for one, would not want to live in Idaho! Part of my criteria for choosing where I live is access to good Asian food. That decidedly does NOT exist in Idaho (but you can decent Asian food in Fresno).

Honestly I don't know what you're talking
about regarding the crime rate, haha. I've never felt unsafe in Fresno. It's not so bad. Then again, my frame of reference is Detroit and the bad areas of Milwaukee. It's weird to defend Fresno. The worst part about Fresno is the meth and syphilis, but those are easy enough to avoid.

Never said those protections were free or cheap. it's always a trade-off. There's no such thing as a free lunch. And no one doubts that CA is an expensive state to live in. But at least the state government is willing to cover children with chronic diseases under Medi-Cal (issues notwithstanding). One can't say that all states are so generous to this vulnerable population. Perhaps I have the more accurate view because it's still largely an outsider's view. ;-P
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Yesterday at 12:44am
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Timothy Henry Lol about the Asian food, I can't argue there. The CV probably has some of the best places, too. Medical coverage is actually one of the things that's kept me in the state, so I think that's easy to defend. But the things you mentioned about Fresno, yeah, those aren't the signs of a healthy and safe place to life. And not the signs of a terribly clean place to live. Not Detroit as you noted, but not somewhere I'd willingly go unless some other things were in place (find me a $90k condo in a nice part of town and we'll talk...)
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ReplyYesterday at 12:48am
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AC Ask and you shall receive! This is in a decent part of Fresno (not the best part, but nowhere near the worst).

https://www.redfin.com/.../3075.../unit-B/home/105757756
(FRESNOMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 1 bath, 960…
redfin.com
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Yesterday at 12:55am
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AC Huh, this is in a similar area and is even cheaper! Not even one of those sneaky fixer-uppers.

https://www.redfin.com/.../2706-W.../unit-263/home/96091966
(FRESNOMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 2 bath, 1440…
redfin.com
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ReplyYesterday at 12:58am
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Timothy Henry Unit B? Is that a condo? So I wouldn't own the land. And I think it's hilarious at the other two posts were both of trashy trailer parks. How utterly depressing.
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ReplyYesterday at 12:59am
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Timothy Henry Also, with the trailer parks, are you buying the land or only the structure? If only the structure, yeah, that's not a house. It's a big RV that's hard to move.
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ReplyYesterday at 1:00am
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AC Now you're just being picky, lol. You ask for evidence that such a cheap property exists and I delivered. This one is in an even better part of town:

https://www.redfin.com/.../336-E.../unit-106/home/72698364
(FRESNOMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 2 bath, 1400…
redfin.com
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ReplyYesterday at 1:01am
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AC Oh this one looks nice! Also safe area of town. Basically, anywhere north of downtown is good.

https://www.redfin.com/.../2657-W.../unit-101/home/58305034
(FRESNOMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 1 bath, 843…
redfin.com
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ReplyYesterday at 1:02am
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Timothy Henry No, I'm being reasonable. Find me a house. A real house. A real, permanent house not made of aluminum siding where I'd own the land AND the permanent structure. Don't cop out with a trailer.
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ReplyYesterday at 1:02am
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AC Timothy Henry To clarify, you said condo. Condo does not equal house. Heck, in Seattle, condo could very well be a studio in a large complex. You're being picky.
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ReplyYesterday at 1:03am
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Timothy Henry Better, now let's put it in a city that isn't in the armpit of the state, or at least somewhere near employment.
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ReplyYesterday at 1:03am
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Timothy Henry AC Sorry, I just assumed that would be the closest thing to a house I could ever afford here. But yeah, a real house is ideal.
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ReplyYesterday at 1:04am
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AC Don't be so curmudgeony! You clearly won't be satisfied. You ask for a property <$90K that's a condo, then escalate to a house, then escalate to exclude a city entirely! Anywhere you work in Fresno, you're <30 min from home. Fresno State is a reputable institution. It would suck to be your real estate agent. XD
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ReplyYesterday at 1:05am
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AC Timothy Henry Come on, that last one is quite good! Gotta admit that!!
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ReplyYesterday at 1:07am
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Timothy Henry It's always been a house. Maybe I'd find work at FS, maybe not, but that wouldn't change the fact that it's Fresno. Also, I see this house "for sale" here, but all they list is the possibility to rent, for $750, but that's a full 1k when you count homeowner's fees. I could afford that, if I made about 7k more a year. And that's to live in Fresno.
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ReplyYesterday at 1:08am
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AC YOU ASKED FOR <$90K AND I GAVE YOU SOMETHING SIGNIFICANTLY CHEAPER!!!! WHY DO YOU HAVE MOVING TARGETS?!?!?!
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ReplyYesterday at 1:10am
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Timothy Henry AC Well, I'll say this, if I wanted to find a place, I'd recruit your help first. (Also, sorry to rag so much on Fresno...I'm not trying to say it's an awful place...I just don't see why I should be priced out of living where I teach, and, one has to admit, Fullerton is a better place to live, though neither is Stockton or Detroit.)
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ReplyYesterday at 1:10am
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Timothy Henry AC What moving target? That house didn't actually seem to be for purchase.
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VB With condos, you don't have to worry about maintenance and sometimes utilities as it's included in the HOA
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Timothy Henry This is a condo for MORE than $100k! I'm not sure whether I'm impressed or disheartened further.
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AC True, but the trade off is you get to stay where you are vs moving to Fresno, which you seem to so detest (even though the cost of living is like 1/3 of where you currently are). Heck, you couldn't even find a comparable condo for that price (and size) within like a 20 mi radius of Seattle!
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Timothy Henry Luckily, I have no desire to move to Seattle. But that's the thing, you're talking about tradeoffs like it's normal and inevitable. And they aren't. And that's why this state is shitty.
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Timothy Henry And again, a trailer. Yeah no. That's not a house, or even a condo. And there's not a guarantee that the land can be purchased. If I wanted a mobile home I'd get an RV.
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AC Timothy Henry Pretty sure trade-offs ARE inevitable. Provide me an example of a city where you have comparable city amenities, cheaper (and decent) housing, an institution where you could have a similar position, and with a pay grade on par or better? You'll find that certain professions are clustered in areas where we have limited choice. Oddly my specialty is one to suffer such restrictions.
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Timothy Henry Well, I'm speaking for myself and not you, and Florida is a great example of a place where you can find those things together. Add no state income tax to boot. This isn't the only place, but it's one of them.
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AC It sounds like you're smitten with Florida, you've hinted at this more than once. Why not look for a job there and find a house that meets your specifications? If you so loathe CA, what's truly anchoring you to a state you don't like? Just curious.

P.S. There are no condos or houses <$90K anywhere near Seattle, haha. The cheapest condo goes for around $200K, and sometimes it's just a plot of land without a house on it! That's quite eye-opening.
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Timothy Henry Florida isn't my only choice, I just happen to like a couple things about the state (other than housing options) that put it above other states (no state income tax, you can actually own your land, nice beaches all over). I'd say "smitten" is a strong word; Florida does have hurricanes and white trash in plenty. But I find many of the living prospects here far better than elsewhere, and proportionally far better than most of California. I do keep tabs on job openings here, but I also do so for several other places in the nation (and even outside it). In the meantime, my hands are tied because I'm fully employed where I'm at in California, and you don't toss a job like that to the wind when jobs in the field are harder to come by compared to many other lines of work (but Florida isn't nec especially worse).
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Timothy Henry One big thing I loathe about California is its citizens' inability to recognize that 1) the state has some serious problems and 2) something needs to be done to fix the problems that can be fixed. That alone might make the state much more livable, and maybe I wouldn't so strongly desire (or feel pressure to) flee the place of my birth (3 generations Californian on my mother's side, so be careful what you accuse me of ).
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MH The mountains and northern beaches are awesome, as is the stark beauty of the desert. Much of California is sparsely inhabited and is actually beautiful. I am truly blessed to live among my friends and family, in a place where I can enjoy the roar of the ocean one day, the frosty cold and majestic trees of the mountains the next, the flowers gracing the desert floor the third day, and, a day's drive away, the breathtaking beauty of Yosemite and King's Canyon.
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Timothy Henry I find much of California drab, dry, smoggy, and or inaccessible. What use are the pretty SB mountains if I can never see them and can't afford a cabin there? I find the starkness of the desert depressing and disheartening.
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ReplyYesterday at 12:11am
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VB There's actually quite a few reasonably priced cabins in the mountains - here's a random one I just found looking at Redfin https://www.redfin.com/.../1105-Scenic-Way.../home/108552861
(CRMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 1 bath, 888 sq. ft.…
redfin.com
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VB Or more authentic and near a favorite restaurant of mine. https://www.redfin.com/.../26456-Forest-Ln.../home/3582457
(CRMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 1 bath, 1000 sq. ft.…
redfin.com
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Timothy Henry How close to work! Only 66miles/1.25 hours from Fullerton to there. And $135k? How is that reasonably priced for a cabin in the middle of nowhere? You know when purchasing a house it is common to ask for at least 10% down? You might not know this, but state employees, even PhD's entrusted with the education of the next generation of Californians, don't make enough to put that much away. Or even make the mortgage on it.
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VB I'm aware of all of those points, but in comparison to many places, the price is reasonable.
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Timothy Henry But I'm talking big picture here. And big picture, considering livability, desirability, cleanliness, affordability, and nearness to work, California loses big time. Now show me that house with that price in Yorba Linda...
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Timothy Henry And that still wouldn't resolve the smog problem, etc.
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AC Timothy Henry Woohoo! $135K can't even get you like a 400 sq ft studio condo in the suburbs of Seattle! XD And with traffic, the commute would probably be >1 hour anyhow. Again, sweeping generalizations can be woefully inaccurate.
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Timothy Henry Yeah, similar in many parts of California. Finding anything less than 100k in any place with employment prospects is almost impossible now. $135 could get you like a corner in Compton, or maybe 1/4 of a living room in a crappy part of Anaheim.
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EAF Well then keep your ass where you are
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Yesterday at 12:14am
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Timothy Henry Wish I could. My underpaid job calls me home, though.
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Timothy Henry Yep, the student loans don't pay themselves. I go where the work is and just resign myself to living somewhere shitty ad infinitum.
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EAF Timothy I get it, we did what we have to do, feel grateful that you have that opportunity
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Timothy Henry I'm done feeling grateful for scraps. I appreciate your positive mindset, and I think it's good that that is encouraging for you.
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EAF Timothy Henry 😂😂whatever
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Timothy Henry Interesting to see all the Californians come flocking to their state's defense. And not one person conceding to even ONE point that I've made. This is the reaction of cult members defending their faith, not people truly living a happy life somewhere.
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ReplyYesterday at 12:16am
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EM Whatever is bothering you, I hope you find solace knowing that there are people all over the world who love you. Yes, every place, including California has its issues -- some shittier than others -- but you make the most of it. You help others out whenever possible and you live as good a life as you can and for others. Hopefully you will not delete this message. If you find that the grass is greener elsewhere then you should actively seek out employment out of the state. I only wish you happiness and if where you live doesn't make you happy then you need to move to where you are happy. Rants like these are not "you" and I hope you feel better in the morning. Hugs my friend!
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Yesterday at 12:21am
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Timothy Henry The comment was deleted because of the "tell me how you really feel" line. It's entirely dismissive of someone's feelings, and not a line I expect a friend to bust out whenever I make a heartfelt point that needs to be listened to and respected. I've actively looked for employment outside California since before I graduated. But why should I have to? Or why shouldn't I have the ability to do so? I'm not so proud that I won't work anywhere, but I'm also smart enough to realize that a lot of the things I've thought about my homestate aren't reflective of reality. How kindly can one feel about one's homestate when they could only afford to live in a place so awful that poisoned their air and lungs their entire life?
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Yesterday at 12:27am
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EM I started to reply but there's nothing I can say that can bring you down from whatever is really upsetting you. I love you and hope you're feeling better later. Good luck in your search for the perfect place. My best always and your friend for as long you wish it. Eric
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Timothy Henry I don't need perfect, and you've still got that snarky dismissive tone. Of course I don't mean perfect. I'm an adult, not a child who believes in Neverland. Every place has issues, but some places are certainly better than others.
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VB I know what you're talking about with how unreasonable and unaffordable so many places are. Here's the cheapest listing in Yorba Linda. https://www.redfin.com/.../16782.../unit-246/home/142938201
(CRMLS) For Sale: 2 bed, 1.75 bath, 1440 sq. ft. mobile/manufactured home located at 16782 Lake Terrace Way #246, Yorba Linda, CA 92886 on sale now for $79,900. MLS# PW17163680. Great location in rear pf p...
redfin.com
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Sânder Wauker VB Is that a trailer home?
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Timothy Henry Sânder Wauker Yeah, both of the responses after I gave qualification were trailer parks. The other was a condo, which isn't owning your land.
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IL seems like alot of our problems would be solved if we listened to what we say,.. and work towards satisfaction if you are truly unhappy living in california.. you should keep trying to find employment eslewhere
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Yesterday at 12:40am
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Timothy Henry Careful what you wish for, you may get it!
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IL i only wish you happiness
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Timothy Henry If I thought it possible and it were elsewhere, I'd leave so fast people's heads would spin. I think it would be in the best interest of some to try to keep me here, not telling me to not let the door hit me on my way out.
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Timothy Henry This is the ultimate, quintessential Californian. You can live in something shitty, you can live on nothing (condo), you can live somewhere shitty, or you can live dependently. They don't realize that there are places in the USA that are not shitty, can be bought and owned (with or without HOA's), are somewhere nice, and don't require one to live dependently. And that's why this state is shitty. And maybe even that would be bearable if Californians weren't so smugly brainwashed that they live in a paradise. I think my point has actually been very well made by others here.
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AC But what I'm trying to make you acknowledge is that this is also true of almost any major metropolitan city in the US. To get what you want (if I'm inferring correctly from your vehemence) would require you to move somewhere where your skills and training may be less marketable/employable (though this is conjecture without data readily available to be).
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Timothy Henry Being in the vein of education I am does make employment more difficult to find, but it is not necessarily strongly limited by the population of the area (not unless it's a really really small town). So I don't see it as a zero-sum game as it were. Also, if California didn't suffer problems such as misspending and its own insidious brand of socialism, someone like me might not HAVE to look to other places to find a place to own.
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MRR I'm so looking forward to getting outta CA. 😀😀.
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SW The truth is -- a growing number of people cannot afford to live anymore.
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Timothy Henry And that gets at the heart of the matter, and is something those with means are loathe to acknowledge. No one thinks of the suggestion that a full-time teacher at a four year university is now relegated (if it's even possible, which I doubt based on the prices I saw) to living in housing which was, when I was a child, largely reserved for meth heads and those who had fallen on hard times. For all my bluster, I'm not nec too proud to live in a mobile home, but how long would it be before I couldn't afford even that in California? To say nothing of location, commute, etc. This state and places like it have their priorities very wrong.
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MH And that is exactly why I don't support progressivism/socialism.
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SW And I meet more of them every day. Indeed, I'm just about there.
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Timothy Henry I'm gainfully employed at a university and am still almost there.
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SW Two years ago, a family next door to me had to move. They couldn't even afford their water bill. They ended up moving into a 5th wheel on the property of one of the grandparents, in the Sierra foothills. The neighbors on the other side of me are a retired couple. About the same year (2015) the wife's sister moved in with them. It was supposed to be temporary while she saved up money for a house. She was divorced and was getting back on her feet. She's at least in her 60s and works. The husband once remarked to me that he was not expecting his sister-in-law to be living with them for as long as she has. As for me, I am paring down so that I can more easily move.
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Timothy Henry Very similar situations to many people I know in Southern California, and I don't exclude myself from those numbers.
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SW In fact, I have no desire to live to retirement age unless I can indeed retire.
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EM Don't come back. That attitude only makes it worse for others trying to make a difference. I'm not going to pacify you with a soothing, complimentary response.
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Sânder Wauker Why are all of you taking it so seriously? Is it really that threatening to each of you as individuals for someone from California to not be wholly enamored with California? Good word! Though I would not have used the words Tim used, I have felt the same way many times in the past when I had to go back to California after a vacation to Florida. They are very different states, and each one has many assets and many problems. However, there is still the chance to live some sort of middle-class dream in Florida without having to buy a trailer-cabin 100 miles away in the high desert. I'm sure that Tim might feel differently were he returning to his villa in La Jolla, but that ain't the case. I wonder what makes folks from California so defensive. I was raised there and have lived there for most of my life. I don't think anybody believes that California is all bad. Everyone knows that it has beautiful areas. My favorite parts are the redwoods, the sequoias, Joshua tree, Santa Barbara, and the palm oases outside of Palm Springs. I also appreciate Lake Tahoe and the Monterey area. But over the course of 30 years of living in California I can honestly say that all the time I spent in pretty areas was not equal to the time I spent in economically depressed areas with high crime and little to see or do. When you need to earn at least $100,000 a year just to break into the middle class and live within 30 miles of a good job anywhere in the state, things are not going well. If I didn't know any better, I would say that the angry responses Tim's post has elicited came from Scientologists who just heard someone say that Hubbard was a fraud. If you're happy where you live, kudos to you. Please don't expect someone else to be equally thrilled to go home to a state where owning a home in a good neighborhood with good schools within 30 miles of a good job feels about as likely as winning the lottery. Heck, it's just hard to come back from vacation! I felt bummed for 48 hours after getting back from Mexico because Florida doesn't have pyramids and truly tropical waters. It takes a few days to get back into the groove. Y'all just need to calm down and give him a few days to decompress.
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MH Most of the responses are loving, kind, and concerned that Tim isn't happy, from people who really care about him and want to see him happy. In addition, other posts just note that there are places of beauty in California where Tim can go and enjoy himself - again to encourage Tim to find peace in the state where he finds himself at the moment. All of the responses are given because we love and care for Tim. Tim - imagine a hug from each one of those people who took the time to answer your concerns - and know that we care deeply about you.
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Timothy Henry Mom always has the kindest words. Thank you for understanding and validating my feelings regardless of how we might agree or disagree on specifics. That's all I'd ask for from anyone in situations like this.
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SHS Mom rocks!
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